Posts by Disillusioned JW

99

If not the WT/JW relgion where else are 'we' to go? Why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism?

by Disillusioned JW in

sometimes jws wonder if the wt/jw is not the truth, 'then where else are we to go?

' i say 'why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism and why not a secular philosophy which teaches a way of life?

' what do you folks say?.

Disillusioned JW

carla, I noticed you said "you are still at it, trying to convince people there is no god." If by that statement you are saying that when I was a JW I was trying to convince people there is no god, then you are mistaken. JWs believe that Jehovah God exists, though they don't believe that God is a Trinity. While I was a JW I sometimes tried to convince people that the Trinity doctrine is false, but while I was I JW (and hence a God-believer) I did not try to convince people there is no god/God. Jehovah's Witnesses bear witness about Jehovah being God and the JWs teach that Jehovah is the one true God (though they also admit that according to the Bible Jesus is a god in some sense of the word 'god')..

99

If not the WT/JW relgion where else are 'we' to go? Why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism?

by Disillusioned JW in

sometimes jws wonder if the wt/jw is not the truth, 'then where else are we to go?

' i say 'why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism and why not a secular philosophy which teaches a way of life?

' what do you folks say?.

Disillusioned JW

In my prior post when I said "... in my neighbor to promote ..." I meant to say '... in my neighborhood to promote...". Where I said "If only back then I had enough ever read atheistic and freethinker literature, I would very likely had never become baptized as a JW" I meant to say 'If only back then I had enough nerve to read atheistic and freethinker literature, I would very likely had never become baptized as a JW".

99

If not the WT/JW relgion where else are 'we' to go? Why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism?

by Disillusioned JW in

sometimes jws wonder if the wt/jw is not the truth, 'then where else are we to go?

' i say 'why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism and why not a secular philosophy which teaches a way of life?

' what do you folks say?.

Disillusioned JW

Hi carla. Yes I am still 'at it' in regards to trying to convince people of that which I (at the moment at least) believe/think/know is true. Truth is very important to me. I want human society to embrace truth, to leave behind superstitions, and to move forward. Those are some of my values. I had those values as a JW and I have them now. I even went door-to-door one day in my neighbor to promote atheism and naturalism to people. On another day I set up a display of atheistic books about 20 feet away from where JWs had their witnessing carts set up.

When I was a JW I witnessed begrudgingly out of a sense of duty. But the pro-atheism witnessing I do now I do so due to strong compelling desire and due to strong conviction. That is partly because what I have now was chosen freely by me - without psychological pressure or manipulation - and because I perceive the harm the WT religion, and belief in supernaturalism in general, has done. I also imagine how prosperous human society would be today if it had given up supernaturalism and superstition 1,000 years ago or even 300 years ago. Do you see now why I care if people believe or not?

It should be kept in mind though that I become a JW in large part because I was raised from infancy in the JW religion by my JW parents and by my mother's JW parents. But even then, when I was contemplating getting baptized as a JW I had serious doubts about the religion (including its teaching that biological evolution is false). If only back then I had enough ever read atheistic and freethinker literature, I would very likely had never become baptized as a JW. The expectations of the JW religion (such as the expectation during JW meetings to give answers that are in agreement with JW teachings) hindered me from properly questioning and critiquing the religion. I got baptized at age 15. If I had first learned of the religion after age 18 I probably would never had become a JW.

But, regarding Naturalism and Humanism I question them and don't force myself to accept all of their ideas. I try to follow the evidence to wherever it leads. I challenge my ideas/beliefs and test them, from time to time. I only accept those ideas of Naturalism and Humanism that seem correct to me. For example, I ponder the implications of (and the purported proof of) whether or not our universe (as well as space and time) truly had a beginning.

Though I agree with many elements of Humanism (and there are many competing definitions of Humanism given by various Humanists) I don't agree with all of the ideas of Humanism. I don't feel comfortable with some of the values of the most common forms of Humanism (including the idea of abortions of human embryos and fetuses being considered a moral right and even a good thing). Around the year 2010 I started calling myself a Humanist, but a few years ago I stopped identifying myself by the label of Humanist. I don't fully agree with some of the political views that are bundled in various concepts of Secular Humanism. In the year 2009 (or 2010) I started identifying myself as a Naturalist and non-theist, and in 2010 (or 2011) I also identified myself as an atheist (a positive/strong atheist, not merely the agnostic type) and I have continued to identify as a Naturalist, a non-theist, and an atheist.

The idea of Naturalism is less complicated than that of Humanism and as a result I relate more to Naturalism than to Humanism. I do not belong to any atheist, Naturalist or Humanist organization, though I have some association with some organizations of them. [But for politically practical reasons I do currently belong to a political party.] Thomas Paine said regarding himself the following: "My own mind is my own church." I say that "I have no church and no religion. My mind is my own belief-system."

99

If not the WT/JW relgion where else are 'we' to go? Why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism?

by Disillusioned JW in

sometimes jws wonder if the wt/jw is not the truth, 'then where else are we to go?

' i say 'why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism and why not a secular philosophy which teaches a way of life?

' what do you folks say?.

Disillusioned JW

"Ninth, Humanism believes in the complete social implementation of reason and scientific method; and thereby in democratic procedures, and parliamentary government, with full freedom of expression and civil liberties, throughout all areas of economic, political, and cultural life.

Tenth, Humanism, in accordance with scientific method, believes in the unending questioning of basic assumptions and convictions, including its own. Humanism is not a new dogma, but is a developing philosophy ever open to experimental testing, newly discovered facts, and more rigorous reasoning.

Human beings, using their own intelligence and cooperating liberally with one another, can build an enduring citadel of peace and beauty upon this earth.

—Corliss Lamont, from The Philosophy of Humanism, 1990"

See also https://www.ihumanism.org/2012/05/a-humanist-you-should-know-corliss-lamont.html which has an article called "A Humanist You Should Know: Corliss Lamont".

If one looks up the publications quoted in the WT books, and looks for other literature published by those authors (especially authors who are convinced of evolution and who do not believe in personal god or even the supernatural), one can learn many great and wondrous things and discover great truths.

People, if you are looking for an ideology to move to, explore scientific naturalism (a key component of secular humanism). You can discover real truth to replace the falsely called truth of the WT/JW religion.

99

If not the WT/JW relgion where else are 'we' to go? Why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism?

by Disillusioned JW in

sometimes jws wonder if the wt/jw is not the truth, 'then where else are we to go?

' i say 'why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism and why not a secular philosophy which teaches a way of life?

' what do you folks say?.

Disillusioned JW

The 1974 WT book called Is This Life all there is? on page 68 quotes a book by Corliss Lamont called The Illusion of Immortality. An edition (from 1936) of that book can be read online at https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.222482 . I invite JWs and other Christians to have a look at that book.

Corliss was a socialist who wrote literature promoting socialism and who successfully resisted McCarthy and the C.I.A. He was also convinced of evolution, was a Humanist, and he wrote the book called Humanism As A Philosophy (later called The Philosophy of Humanism). The Second Edition of that book, bearing the copyright date of 1949, can be read at https://archive.org/details/humanismasphilos00lamo . I invite JWs and other Christians to read that book - much of what it says is very good. It makes a good case for a number of the ideas of Humanism. In his book he says that the type of Humanism he writes about has "eight central propositions". Regarding them he says the following:

First, Humanism believes in a naturalistic cosmology 
or metaphysics or attitude toward the universe that 
rules out all forms of the supernatural and that regards 
Nature as the totality of being and as a constantly chang- 
ing system of events which exists independently of any 
mind or consciousness. 

Second, Humanism, drawing especially upon the proven 
facts of science, believes that man is an evolutionary prod- 
uct of this great Nature of which he is part and that he

is an inseparable unity of body and personality having 
no individual survival beyond death. 

Third, Humanism believes that human thinking is as 
natural as walking or breathing, that it is indivisibly 
conjoined with the functioning of the brain, and that 
ideas, far from existing independently in some separate 
realm, arise and have reality only when a complex liv- 
ing organism such as man is interacting with its environ- 
ment and is intellectually active. 

Fourth, Humanism believes that man has the power 
and potentiality of solving his own problems successfully, 
relying primarily on reason and scientific method to do 
so and to enlarge continually his knowledge of the truth.

Fifth, Humanism believes, in opposition to all theories 
of universal predestination, determinism or fatalism, that 
human beings possess true freedom of creative action and 
are, within reasonable limits, the masters of their own 
destiny. 

Sixth, Humanism believes in an ethics or morality 
that grounds all human values in this-earthly experiences 
and relationships; and that holds as its highest loyalty 
the this-worldly happiness, freedom and progress — eco- 
nomic, cultural and ethical — of all mankind, irrespec- 
tive of nation, race or religion. 

Seventh, Humanism believes in the widest possible 
development of art and of the awareness of beauty, in- 
cluding the appreciation of external Nature, so that the 
aesthetic experience may become a pervasive reality in 
the life of men.

Eighth, Humanism believes in a far-reaching social 
program that stands for the establishment throughout the 
world of democracy and peace on the foundations of a 
flourishing and cooperative economic order, both national 
and international.

These eight points embody Humanism in what I be- 
lieve is its most acceptable modem form. This philosophy 
can be more explicitly characterized as scientific Human- 
ism, secular Humanism, naturalistic Humanism or dem- 
ocratic Humanism, depending on the emphasis that one 
wishes to give. Whatever it be called. Humanism is the 
viewpoint that men have but one life to lead and should 
make the most of it in terms of creative work and hap- 
piness; that human happiness is its own justification and 
requires no sanction or support from supernatural sources; 
that in any case the supernatural, usually conceived of 
in the form of heavenly gods or immortal heavens, does 
not exist; and that human beings, using their own intel- 
ligence and cooperating liberally with one another, can 
build an enduring citadel of peace and beauty upon this 
earth.

22

Degree of Effectiveness of JW Letter Writing Form of Witnessing

by Disillusioned JW in

a newspaper article quotes a jw as saying "every (letter) i put in the mailbox, i feel, 'ah, this could reach somebody.

'" the article also quotes her as saying "we are accomplishing even more now than we were door-to-door because this way everybody in the house gets a chance to pick up that letter and respond to it.

it just feels good.

Disillusioned JW

https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/arts/under-the-sun-why-a-local-woman-wants-to-nail-the-jehovahs-witnesses-11545704 is a news article about one Methodist woman's angry letter writing to the JWs, in response to the JWs' letter writing campaign.

75

Misquotes, Lies and deception in Watchtower Publications

by jwfacts in

i have just finished an article misquotes, deception and lies and would like your comments, proof reading, and any other examples that you think are important to add.

most of these already appear on jwfacts.com within specific articles, but it is more powerful seeing them included together.

there have also been a number of requests over the years for such a collection.

Disillusioned JW

Though the WT uses quotes to misrepresent (and/or misquote) what others wrote, the WT sure didn't like it when others (according to the WT) misquoted and misrepresented them. See http://www.strictlygenteel.co.uk/tracts/kn7.html for examples of the latter during the year 1940. Notice to what great lengths the WT responded to misquotes and misrepresentations of others (according to the WT) of the WT.

20

It took a lot of lies, ignorance and corruption to create CHURCHIANITY!

by TruthMatters in

have you gone back to that- or lost you faith because of 'brothers'?.

Disillusioned JW

Regarding The Finished Mystery WT book and its writer and why it has so many bizarre teachings the "Then Is Finished The Mystery Of God" WT book (copyright 1969) makes the following interesting claim (and excuse) on page 252:

"It is well known that a frequent commentator on the book of Revelation, namely, the first president of the Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society, Charles Taze Russell, was looked to by many to write his explanation of the complete book of Revelation. But before he could do so, he died two years after the end of the Gentile Times, or on October 31, 1916. The following year, in July of 1917, the Society under its second president, Joseph F. Rutherford, published the book The Finished Mystery, which set out a commentary on the whole of Revelation, as largely based on the previous writings of C. T. Russell.

In course of time The Finished Mystery proved to be unsatisfactory, because it had been written and published before many critical parts of the book of Revelation were fulfilled to make possible a correct understanding. So, although an attempt was made to write down things heard, The Finished Mystery did not break the secret of any "seven thunders" that had "uttered their own voices." (Revelation 10: 3) It was therefore a time to wait for accurate understanding to be made possible, and in the meanwhile to absorb spiritual knowledge from the hand of Jehovah God by means of his glorified Son Jesus Christ. This was done."

But, the "Then Is Finished The Mystery Of God" book has its own problems, though to me it is far less problematic (and far less outrageous) than The Finished Mystery book. The "Then Is Finished The Mystery Of God" book can be read at http://www.strictlygenteel.co.uk/mystery/mysterytitles.html . Today I have been comparing the interpretations/commentary of the two WT books with each other and I find a number of the differences to be rather shocking.

I see virtually no value in the content of the The Finished Mystery book other than to show open minded JWs (JWs who are open to the idea that the JW religion might be a false religion) and those considering becoming JWs, that Jehovah God and/or Jesus Christ did not choose the WT religion and/or the WT society in the year 1918, 1919, or in the years 1920 - 1929.

By the way, "Then Is Finished The Mystery Of God" book encourages it readers to read really old WT articles and old books authored by Rutherford. For example, page 254 has the following footnotes:

'* For an interesting comment on Revelation 10:6 according to the Authorized (King James) Version see The Watch Tower as of August 15, 1925, page 247, paragraph 33. Also, the book Light, Volume One, pages 178-180, under "Time No Longer," published in 1930.

† For an interesting suggestion on this see The Watch Tower as of April 15, 1919, pages 120, 121, under "The Finished Mystery," particularly the final two paragraphs. A reprint of July 1882.'

20

It took a lot of lies, ignorance and corruption to create CHURCHIANITY!

by TruthMatters in

have you gone back to that- or lost you faith because of 'brothers'?.

Disillusioned JW

Though the The Finished Mystery was published with the claim of being written by Russell it shouldn't really thought of as written by Russell. It was published after Russell died and it was prepared by others, though using prior writings of Russell as ideas for some of the content. Furthermore page 485 of the book does not claim that all of the members of the churches will be destroyed, since it says that some of them will survive. Not is says 'Also, in the year 1918, when God begins to destroy* the churches and the church members by millions, it shall be that any that escape shall come to the works of Pastor Russell to learn the meaning of the downfall of "Christianity." ' But it is true that even that sentence in the book makes a false claim. It also true that the WT/JW (at least during the time I was an active JW) teaches that virtually everyone who will survive the Battle of Armageddon will be Jehovah's Witnesses - implying that billions of other people will be destroyed.

Regarding your point number 19, neither Russell nor The Finished Mystery book says the earth was created 48,000 years ago. Page 139 of the book says "... the dawn of earth's creative week 48,000 years ago." Russell accepted the idea that there was (or might have been) a time gap between the creation of heavens and the earth (Genesis 1:1) and the start of the first creative day. Thus, while Russell taught the first creative day began about 48,000 years ago (the 1,000 year portion of Christ's reign was thought to be the final part of the 6th creative day - with each creative day being 7,000 years long), Russell (and even current WT/JW teaching) left doctrinal room for the Earth to have come into existence before the first creative day. The creative days are considered a transformation of an already existing Earth.

In the Studies In The Scriptures volume called The New Creation, in chapter one of that book, on page 18 Russell says "Examining the Genesis expressions critically, we discern that a distinction is made between the creation of the heaven and the earth (verse 1) and the subsequent regulations, or ordering of these, and the further creations of vegetable and animal life. It is these subsequent operations that are described as the divine work of six epochal days. Verse 2 tells us that in the very beginning of the first day of that creative week the earth was — though without form (order), and void (empty) —waste, empty and dark. This important item should be distinctly noted. If recognized, it at once corroborates the testimony of geology thus far; and, as we shall be obliged to dispute the deductions of geologists on some points, it is well that we promptly acknowledge and dismiss whatever does not need to be contended for in defense of the Bible. The Bible does not say how long a period elapsed between the beginning when God created the heaven and the earth, and the beginning of the creative week used in perfecting it for man: ..." On page 19 of that volume Russell says "We do, then, find satisfactory evidence that one of these creative "days" was a period of seven thousand years and, hence, that the entire creative week would be 7,000 x 7=49,000 years." See http://www.strictlygenteel.co.uk/newcreation/ncstudy1.html for chapter one of that volume.

I consider The Finished Mystery book to be largely written by Rutherford. Several of the books written in Rutherford's name make extreme failed claims like the one quoted above. A huge percentage of the Bible Student movement (a movement created by Russell) separated from the Watchtower society largely as a result of the publishing of the highly flawed book called The Finished Mystery.

23

The Covid-19 Vaccines do NOT Alter Human Genes, despite the myths to the contrary

by Disillusioned JW in

["covid-19 vaccines can’t alter your dna, here’s why"]

can covid-19 vaccines alter my dna?

no, covid-19 vaccines do not alter your dna.

Disillusioned JW

News article: "Belgium halts J&J COVID vaccine for under 41s after first EU death" - see the following:

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/belgium-says-halts-jj-covid-jab-under-41s-after-one-dies-2021-05-26/ . The article in part says the following: "Belgium said on Wednesday it was suspending vaccinations with Johnson & Johnson's Janssen COVID-19 vaccine for people under the age of 41 following the first death in Europe from severe side-effects associated with the shot."

You folks who consider the Covid-19 vaccines to be very risky have some basis for thinking such.